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  #1  
Old 01-09-2006, 11:41 PM
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sgchevelle sgchevelle is offline
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I am running a 572 bbc with about 13 to 1 on Alcohol. I have a pro billit dist. the Dist. is locked and timing is at 36 Deg. I have used the same starter and flywheel for about 5 years. I bought a Digital 7 programable and a HVC II coil about a year ago. The last 3 weekends out including Lucas oil Nationals and A Div 5 Divisional event it ended with a broken starter and flywheel due to starter kick back. The starter retard seems to be working according to the Computer and changing the amount of retard does not seem to help. This Seems to be getting worse. I Talked to some other racers and they have had same problems with Digital 7s. I was thinking about getting rid of the digital 7 and buying a 7AL-3 or comparable unit but When visiting this forum i Seen other problems almost identical But not just with Digital 7s. Any advice would be much appricated

Dan Hyttsten
Becker, MN
763-477-8806
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Old 01-10-2006, 07:58 AM
msdtechsupport1
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Check your distributor cap for any carbon tracking. A large cubic engine with high compression will put more of a load on a small distributor cap, and depending on the situation, may cause some cross-firing in the cap. If this happens, the start retard may not work right. Also, if the cranking speed begins to fall off, the start retard may not even come on at all. How much start retard are you using? Have you changed anything else on the engine besides the ignition?
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Old 01-10-2006, 09:31 AM
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sgchevelle sgchevelle is offline
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Q.1 I looked at my cap and rotor and dont see any signs of carbon tracking. they are not new but looked clean and no marks or do not to be even worn

Q.2 the last time i put in a new csr pro platium starter and csr flywheel the batterys were fully charged. i cranked with no ign and sounded great. i started cranking then hit the ign switch fired quicky then died went to restart cranked then hit ign switch kicked back and busted 3 teeth on flywheel. both brand new parts with fully charged battery and never got off the stands. I also thought that if the rpm was below 800 the retard should work so if the cranking speed slowed down why would the retard not work.

Q.3 I have tried several different retards changes slightly but still kicks back no mater what the setting

Q.4 I have not changed anything major on the motor for quite a while just locking up dist when i put in new ign but did not seem to have near the problems right away
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Old 01-10-2006, 09:54 AM
msdtechsupport1
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Looks like you've covered everything. If you have the time, send us the Digital 7 so we can take a look at it. There is a small chance that the start retard function is not working correctly. In-house time is 10 to 12 days and be sure to call in ahead of time to get an RMA number.
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Old 01-10-2006, 11:12 AM
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sgchevelle sgchevelle is offline
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thank you for your quick response. i will send it in and i hope they find something or tell me if there is nothing wrong so i can look elsewhere and it doesn't cost me $500 next time i try to start my car
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Old 01-10-2006, 05:27 PM
House of Payne House of Payne is offline
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I hope that sending your box back works, but I will bet almost anything that they will not find a thing wrong with it. The years you had no problem with your starter I assume that your distributor was NOT locked out and you said that after locking your distributor and installing a new digital 7 plus all of your problems had begun. All of this is too familier to me because that is the same situation with almost the same set-up. This year I am going to try a crank trigger to see if it helps at all ( I don't know why it would ) That is the only stone that I have not thrown at my cars!!! I build racing starters for a living and even I get tired of changing them and flywheels. Believe me I have tried every starter known to the racing community and not one Improves this problem! The only thing the we racers don't want to do is go backwards with technology but a distributor with some advance in it worked for over 20 years for me with the same starter!!! let me know how your deal turns out.
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Old 01-12-2006, 09:50 PM
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if there is nothing wrong with the ign, which i would also guess to be true, is it locking the dist. causing my problem. my previous ign was a digital 6 and i had no problems. I think it had a 0-9.9 start retard and i think i had it at 9.9 and always started fine. Is it possible that the 20 or 25 degree retard in the digital 7 programable is not enough with the dist locked. while cranking what is the difference in timing between a locked and unlocked dist. if its more than 15 then i probally cant put enough retard in it. and with all the cars out there that have a msd ign, locked dist, and high compression, how come they either work perfect (96%)or don't work at all(4%)
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Old 01-14-2006, 05:51 AM
House of Payne House of Payne is offline
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That is what I have been trying to get MSD to tell me(last question) The one thing that I have had personal experience with is the fact that on some cars the mechanical advance of a distributor will always work but a locked out distributor with an electronic advance will NOT!!!
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Old 01-14-2006, 11:26 AM
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CSquaredTS CSquaredTS is offline
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Alot of people who run alky don't like to use the retard. Most just spin the engine, then hit the ignition while the engine is turning. Especially in an injected car since it helps get the fuel up to the nozzles. We however turn the ignition on first, prime with gas, then crank it over. It's a 572, inj. alky, 16:1 comp, front drive dist, crank trigger, 7AL-3 w/ Multi-Function Controller (PN8979) which basically makes it a digital 7. At 38 degrees timing, I take 20 out of it at cranking and there's usually no drama.

It's only kicked back 2 or 3 times, and it was only the first cranking that day when it was quite cold.
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Old 01-14-2006, 06:21 PM
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Eric David Bru Eric David Bru is offline
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Hey CSquaredTS!

I wondered when you would be over... happy

I am going to have to suggest the opposite, feel free to argue. tongue

Why not disable or dramatically reduce (to less than 9.9*) the start retard on the Digital 7 and see how it starts? If it is hard to crank gradually give it a little more retard until it starts the way they want it to? unsure

In the past we have never used a start retard and I don't plan to use this function when we upgrade to the Digital 7+. I feel it is more suited towards street cars. Our engine is a 468 on alky @ 15.5:1 CR cool
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